Leading Change for Skills: Champions Across the Workforce Ecosystem

Dee Wallace (00:00:04)

Hello and welcome. My name’s Dee Wallace, and I’m a senior fellow at the Economic Opportunities Program here at the Aspen Institute. We’re so happy you’re joining us here for this conversation today called Leading Change for Skills: Champions Across the Workforce Ecosystem. Our conversation today is part of the Workforce Leadership Academy Network, which brings together leaders from across the local workforce development ecosystem to learn together and work together to advance economic opportunity.

Dee Wallace (00:00:36)

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Dee Wallace (00:01:30)

So let’s get started.

Dee Wallace (00:01:33)

The Aspen Institute’s Economic Opportunities Program has long recognized the power of cross-sector leadership to advance change. And our Workforce Leadership Academies have worked in more than 20 communities around the country to bring together cohorts of fellows across the workforce ecosystem. Nonprofit organizations, for profit organizations, industry, intermediaries, public agencies, that make up our entire circle of the workforce ecosystem. These leaders work at the intersection of personal leadership, of organizational practice, equity and inclusion, and systems change, in order to open up doors to economic opportunity.

Dee Wallace (00:02:21)

In this past year, our fellows have been looking at the direction of opening up opportunity through a focus on skills-based talent development across our workforce ecosystems. Skills-based, or skills-based talent approaches, broaden the ways in which talent supply can meet business demand. Often, for example, by removing degreed requirements or adjusting job descriptions for new hires. In today’s conversation, we’re going to take us across the whole workforce ecosystem, not only to industry in advanced manufacturing, but also in the nonprofit and community services sector. And not only for frontline workers, as the conversation is often held, but also in leadership roles.

Dee Wallace (00:03:15)

So I am very pleased to invite two leaders who have championed these changes in their organizations, and across their communities. Leah Palmer, who is the Executive Director for the Arizona Advanced Manufacturing Institute at the Maricopa County Community College District, and Tiffany Mangum, Executive Director at the Beyond Housing Foundation of Fresno Housing, in California. Thank you both. We’re so pleased that you are willing to be here and share with us today. To get us started, would you please introduce yourselves, and share your background and current roles?

Dee Wallace (00:03:58)

Let’s start with you, Leah.

Leah Palmer (00:04:00)

Great. Thank you.

Leah Palmer (00:04:02)

Thank you for the opportunity to share and learn today. I have a unique background. I was early adopter of living in Arizona upon getting my master’s degree, and recognized that there were trends that I was seeing happen in my life. Which was, my first job here in Arizona was an organization called WOW, W-O-W, Women Off Welfare, where it was all about removing barriers and helping women find a pathway for them and their children.

Leah Palmer (00:04:41)

My second opportunity was public policy, which on the other end of the spectrum was how to fix things, and how to manage those pieces of workforce policy. With that, Mesa Community College, which was one of the colleges in Maricopa, I was the director for workforce development. And from that, led to being part of the heart of Maricopa with Arizona Advanced Manufacturing Institute, where all of those pieces of the ecosystem that are in manufacturing, be it LG, or be it semiconductor, electric vehicles, all of that comes under the umbrella of the work that I am privileged to do.

Dee Wallace (00:05:30)

Thank you for joining us. Tiffany?

Tiffany Mangum (00:05:33)

Wonderful. Hello, everybody. My name is Tiffany Mangum, Beyond Housing Foundation, and Fresno Housing, exactly. I am the executive director of Beyond Housing Foundation, the nonprofit partner and affiliate with Fresno Housing. And I have a dual role as the executive director, but also I oversee strategic initiatives and partnerships for the Housing Authority. So myself and my team are responsible for developing new relationships, and bringing in resources for our nonprofit work. And so, very proud of that work.

Tiffany Mangum (00:06:03)

I am Fresno. As I mentioned, I’m in Fresno, California, born and raised. Shout out to all my West Coasters out there. I am a proud Aspen Fellow, and I am just grateful to be here working, particularly with low-income communities, underserved communities, on the overarching goal and aspirations of economic mobility, both in education and in workforce. And I am just proud to be here and share our experience. Thank you for having me.

Dee Wallace (00:06:35)

Thank you for being here. And we’re proud that you chose to be an Aspen Fellow. Tiffany is a 2025 alumnus of the Fresno Workforce Leadership Academy, and Leah is a 2018 alum of the Phoenix Workforce Leadership Academy, so we’re so honored to continue to be able to work with you both. Thank you.

Dee Wallace (00:07:02)

So Leah, let’s get started with you. Looking at getting in the door, in advanced manufacturing. Tell us about how you have been looking beyond the traditional constructs for connecting workers and industry in this field, particularly for women. Tell us about your work in the semiconductor industry in Arizona.

Leah Palmer (00:07:26)

Thank you. This is an area that I have tremendous passion for. The opportunity for someone to know even what is inside the semiconductor fabs and ecosystem is really unimaginable. It is very hard to tell someone what semiconductor is, because it’s just a big cement building. And for good reason, for proprietary reasons, and for safety reasons, and for program reasons.

Leah Palmer (00:08:05)

But the interesting part about being in this semiconductor world is that it was an unanticipated wave of what was norm with your basic Intels, and other programs or other industry partners. But what we were seeing, is that people didn’t know how to get in the door, or even to see that with this wave there was going to be opportunity, because they didn’t even know what the opportunity looked like or would require. And so, we had our hands full with learning how to pivot, so that we could communicate and help with some of these things. I’d like to share a few pieces of that puzzle.

Leah Palmer (00:08:56)

What we did is, we created a quick start program, and it was in tandem with industry. And industry actually needed as many of their technicians as they could possibly get. It was kind of everyone, all men for themselves, and we were going to try and get this talent out there. And in doing so, we created the Quick Start Program, which was layered to have access, so that it was a four hour a day for only two weeks, in the morning. And you could go also and get the same training, four hours in the evening, so that your shifts and your family and your children picked up from school, could all be part of that opportunity.

Leah Palmer (00:09:42)

And by doing that we created a new model and the model was stackable, so that we could actually continue to build programs on top of that, that allows somebody to get to a higher job. These kind of nuanced but important shifts, and pivots, made it so that we now… And you can see this, we have served over 1300 people in two and a half years, 1300 who came through this program looking for opportunity.

Leah Palmer (00:10:15)

We also saw in the data, as we were collecting it all the way along, is that we saw a very diverse age population that was learning from either their previous jobs, or trying to use current skills and build on those skills. But you can see that 30 to 39 is our highest rate of individuals. Can you put that back up there, Dee? I’m not sure.

Leah Palmer (00:10:48)

We also have an unprecedented access to the Latino community, that typically has not been our largest population in going to college. We have females, ratios in this training, of 32%. Which is far above what the norm is in the female. And the male, you can see stays pretty steady. But the one that’s most important in the work that we’re doing is the first generation college goer. It is 55% of all of those 1,300 people, that have decided that they think they can go to college. And what we do is we make sure that their tuition is paid upon successful completion, there’s badging and there’s certifications that allow them to keep their resume current, and a kickstart.

Leah Palmer (00:11:44)

So what I’m basically sharing is that the demographics, and the Semiconductor Quick Start program, became a model that helps other people have access and opportunity.

Dee Wallace (00:11:57)

Thank you. That is showing meaningful change, particularly in populations, and in race and gender outcomes. Could you hone in a little bit and talk a little bit more about your program design, and the innovation in terms of scheduling, and elements of that that made it more open to women and men who are managing families?

Leah Palmer (00:12:28)

Well, and even individuals over 50. They wanted a new life, they wanted a new focus, and a new opportunity to continue to feel like they were relevant. What the Quick Start program really did is it was a game changer. The college enrollments alone were historic, in those spaces. But the other piece of it is that you can’t see inside a fab. And so, they had to go through processes in this program where they were wearing bunny suits, so that they could see if they were claustrophobic or had any issues with that kind of PPE wear.

Leah Palmer (00:13:19)

We were seeing model-based problem solving, where they had to work as a team and actually work on some equipment, and share and document. Which, it isn’t an isolated experience, in a chair. You’re actually active. They had to wear gloves and do tooling, so that they could actually identify the tools, know what the tools were, and what the processes were going to be when they actually got into the fab. So the training itself wasn’t about just awareness, it was really about skill build, and that they could actually come up with opportunity to get into an entry level job.

Leah Palmer (00:14:02)

We also had opportunities for our Fresh Start program. Fresh Start is an all-female program that has done a great job in growing and nurturing their population. And we would do cohorts of just women, so that they didn’t feel intimidated, or didn’t feel like they were less than. And that they were actually vibrant, and had skills that, they’re very good with their hands. And so some of these pieces were big ahas, not just for the college and not just for the institution itself. It was really an aha to the students who said, “I can do this.” And there, their start began.

Dee Wallace (00:14:46)

I really appreciate the flexibility of offering the morning or the evening scheduling. How did that come about?

Leah Palmer (00:14:55)

Well, it came about because we had a model for aerospace. Aerospace had high demands, and aerospace said, “We need to have 400 people go through our program.” And we’re like, “How do we do that without just having to cut it in half, and make sure that they get hands-on training in the college? And then they have to do read, respond, and programming tasks when they were at home.” And that model allowed them to still keep their job, to still do the things that they needed to do to provide for their family.

Leah Palmer (00:15:32)

And we also did one more thing that I think is really important. You can’t have a college class without an instructor. So we went to Intel and we said, “We need instructors who understand these technologies to be able to be faculty, to teach this many sections, this many people, over this period of time.” The beauty of that was, one, we had retirees coming out of the wall, because they wanted to be part of this, and they wanted to contribute all that they had learned over the years and bring it to the classroom. And that made it a beautiful ecosystem, for them to be able to tell their stories to the students. The why, the how. And we had 140 individuals apply to be a faculty for that program. So now we’re spreading the wealth, and giving other opportunities to other faculty. But unless you have all the tools in your toolbox, something is not going to work. And what this model taught us is, there’s opportunity and ways to make it work.

Dee Wallace (00:16:48)

Thank you. And that is so often a limiting factor in sector training, is the availability of people to train, with the experience. So that’s a really, really interesting model and approach.

Dee Wallace (00:17:02)

So in terms of getting new folks into industry, and getting them in the door in advanced manufacturing. We do often focus, when you’re having conversations about the skills and the talent pipeline, we often focus on frontline workers in private sector industries. Getting people in the door for manufacturing and other industries. But it’s important for those of us, who are across that whole broad spectrum of the workforce ecosystem, to also be having these conversations. Whether we’re intermediaries, or public agencies, or nonprofit organizations. And Tiffany, your organization tackled this at the leadership level as well, right? Could you tell us what prompted Beyond Housing and Fresno Housing to look beyond just the front door, in your efforts?

Tiffany Mangum (00:17:59)

Yeah, let me tell a little bit of our story. So we are a very different place to be and to work these days, as opposed to just maybe three to four years ago. And that is due to some very rich, and hard, and internal work that we kind of put on ourselves. But we wanted to, the dichotomy was looking at who we were at that time, versus who we wanted to be as an organization, as a community partner and institution. And as, even a national housing, affordable housing provider and developer. So we took a hard look at ourselves.

Tiffany Mangum (00:18:45)

Currently, our current culture survey, we do a culture survey every year with staff, notes that over 90% of our staff voted that they are extremely satisfied or satisfied with their current job experience within our agency. Now, how did we get there? Again, taking a hard look at who we were versus who we wanted to be.

Tiffany Mangum (00:19:11)

Just in 2022, 2021, morale was down, customer service was down. We lost good talent and leadership. Between now and then, currently actually, there’s less than 30% of our leadership still here that was here just four or five years ago. So there was somewhat of a mass exodus, and we’ll talk a little bit about what that meant, and what that looked like. But internally, we had this issue of, “Wait a minute. We thought, and we assumed, that we were just this incredible organization to be at. Had incredible talent, that was slowly leaving, but why?”

Tiffany Mangum (00:19:53)

So we launched an internal audit, and yielded some really tough results. And the communication, “We hear what you’re saying, but also what you’re not saying.” People just didn’t feel valued. Some left because there was no value placed in their experience, or their ability to function within the organization. We had, really, a culture that wasn’t very inclusive and supportive, a leadership culture that wasn’t very supportive of one another and our staff. So we did an audit. We’ve got these results. We were very intentional about how to respond to those things.

Tiffany Mangum (00:20:36)

We hired a chief diversity officer. I will tell you, truthfully, our entire leadership team was not on board. But ultimately what we did is, we ultimately were all held accountable for how our internal culture, and performance, and ultimately our outcomes, really landed. We were very intentional about ensuring equity at every level, across the board. And we also wanted a renewed relationship with our clients and with the families that we served, as well as our community partners. And so, we had to really show up differently in order for our clients and our residents and our community to show up differently.

Tiffany Mangum (00:21:17)

So we began, really, what we saw at the root level. And that was really a shift in our hiring practices, and our systems that we had in place for how we attracted talent, how we kept our talent, and promoting our talent from within. Which is something we didn’t do a lot of. So we took a look at our job descriptions, we took a look at our job announcements and recruitment practices, and our outreach. And we took another look, also, at our performance evaluations and how we were holding our leaders and ourselves accountable.

Tiffany Mangum (00:21:52)

And so, actually I’m going to show you a slide of job, really kind of performance competencies. Let’s see if I can get this here. All right, hopefully you all can see that.

Tiffany Mangum (00:22:09)

We took a look at some job competencies that we had. I’m just showing what we did in our performance evaluation and accountability space. And our job competencies were pretty spot on. You need to know your job. You need to be able to understand the clients you work with, and work with your team. Take initiative, communication, safety and risk, reliability and judgment. Then we added, within our leadership space, we added some real competencies that did not necessarily align with having a degree. So we had to take a really hard look at what our requirements were for leadership. We were not promoting from within, even if someone had 10 or 15 years of experience, and were able to lead a team. And we all know leadership is not a title. And we were not promoting because someone did not have a degree. And we put a heavy emphasis on credentials, as opposed to what their experience and capacities were.

Tiffany Mangum (00:23:15)

And so, we began to take a look at ourselves, and added some leadership competencies that we felt were pretty important with how we operated within our organization. But then across the board, we wanted to be sure that everyone was held accountable for how our relationships, and how we were interacting with one another. As well as our inclusion, our efforts around inclusion, and making sure that our external and internal stakeholders were a valued part of our organization, and we were able to communicate that in various different ways.

Tiffany Mangum (00:23:55)

And so we took a shift in this particular realm in our world, and then also with this shift came… Let me go to my next slide. I’m sorry. We took a look at, as I said, really the degree requirement that we had. Which are great, and I don’t want to ever imply that degree attainment and other credentials are non-important. They are. They are valued within our organization. But what we did was, we took a look and see, what could be a companion, ideal candidate for us to be able to meet our objectives and our goals? And who is mission aligned, and all of that. So we took a look here, and I’m sorry I used my HR term, MQs mean Minimum Qualifications. I’m sorry. Degrees, traditionally in our hiring, we’d require degrees and job titles. If you had the title of manager in your role, then you were qualified. If you had a bachelor’s or master’s degree, then automatically, you were qualified. And we did not place value or weight on specific competencies, deliverables, and things.

Tiffany Mangum (00:25:06)

And so we wanted to, this is kind of just a high level glimpse and idea of what we began to think about. It should be perspective, was very narrow and homogenous, versus having a broader pool of ideals, of folks who could come in and add to the culture that we had here. We kind of leaned away from what we call “the ideal fit,” because we were not interested in maintaining or staying the same. We wanted to include and bring along folks who would challenge us to be better, to think bigger, to think broader, to think differently.

Tiffany Mangum (00:25:47)

And it completely flipped our organization. We did a 180, which was beautiful, in so many different ways. We have a very different relationship here in our region, and even across the country. We have a very different relationship with our clients and our residents and families, even down to the neighborhood level. And the assessments for these are here as well. How do you assess these things, and attract the talent? Here, we’re looking at work samples, we’re looking at reports, we’re looking at other deliverables. Simulations, I’ve done those myself. It’s, “Tell me what you’re going to do here. Write up a report, write up a plan. How are you going to respond?”Real life examples, and realistic examples of how we operate, and the different things that we encounter. And our area of focus shifted as well. We’re looking at currently, “What are you able to do? What can you do? How can you come into our organization and help elevate? And what can we do as well, in return, to level up in every way imaginable?” And we’re also looking at the future of potential of individuals within our organization.

Tiffany Mangum (00:27:02)

We learned very early on, and saw very clearly, that our leadership did not reflect who we serve. Our lived experience was not aligned. It wasn’t valued. You have families coming in every day, who are living on the margins, and you had no connection to the realities of that on a day-to-day basis. And so, with a shift in what we valued within our leadership, within our workforce, within our staff, and even our volunteers, we began to see that shift and that change happen over time.

Tiffany Mangum (00:27:42)

And I will say, again, it was not easy. It was not welcomed at every level, but it was intentional, and there was a real commitment to it. And so we definitely are proud of those outcomes, and the things that we have today. And again, it’s progress, not perfection, and that’s what we aspire to do. And who we aspire to be every day is the organization that everyone would want to come work with or for, and value the people that we have here.

Dee Wallace (00:28:17)

I really, really applaud your bravery. And we’re seeing comments in the chat too, of appreciation for your candor. And just the bravery to me of discarding that notion of the ideal fit, because you want it to be something different, just really, really lands with me so deeply. And that just seems so brave to me.

Dee Wallace (00:28:44)

You talked about seeing how the relationships are different in the community, across the country, et cetera, given the way that your leadership looks now. Could you give an example of what that looks like, what a different relationship means?

Tiffany Mangum (00:29:02)

Well, when I say a different relationship, we have a different response and a different engagement all the way around, with our residents. Earlier on, they were non-responsive. It was very transactional. Now we are considered, increasingly so, a trusted and valued organization for our community, and for our families that we serve and we’re able to impact. We have invited them into… Well, we’ve hired several. I actually have someone on my staff now who actually lives at one of our housing sites. And it’s invaluable the way, the insight that they’re able to give, and what they bring to the work that we do every day. And I completely appreciate the Fresno Housing and Beyond Housing of today, even more so than I did several years ago.

Dee Wallace (00:30:00)

Wow. Thank you. Again, I’m so struck by the powerful intentions of both of you, to open up access for people with lived experience, for women in a different kind of industry. And I’m reminded of one of the community agreements that you all might remember from the Workforce Leadership Academy, in terms of discussions from different perspectives. And it’s about owning the impact of your words, and not just the intent. And I’m reminded of a story that Leah told me about, when standing up one of these programs, at the end of the day, the impact didn’t match what the intent was. Surprisingly. And what you had to do with that.

Dee Wallace (00:30:59)

Leah, tell us about that course correction that you had to make, when the impact didn’t line up with the intent. Leah, you’re on mute.

Leah Palmer (00:31:15)

That’s what I get for not wanting to sneeze while I’m on the camera.

Leah Palmer (00:31:22)

Thank you, because I think that some of the best lessons learned are when things didn’t go just as planned, right? But at the same time, I think there is disconnects, and sometimes we can’t see them. And even though we call it an ecosystem, as though it’s a complete cycle, there are broken pieces along the way. And so what you’re sharing, or having me share, is really how we discovered some of those gaps.

Leah Palmer (00:31:54)

And so when we were training all of these individuals in the early stage, it was a matriculation that was to attract, bring them in and train them, and then put them out into a position of getting employment. And then, from that, hopefully a long-term career.

Leah Palmer (00:32:22)

What ended up happening in our early iteration was that we had done the training. We had a tremendous and robust and talented group of people, from all ages, as I had mentioned earlier. And then we had HR, from one of the companies, come in with their team and interview these individuals. And at the end of the interview, and everyone was so excited, we were told that none of the candidates qualified. And yet, we had used the job descriptions to qualify them. So the question came, what was the dissonance? And the dissonance was that the HR department didn’t get the same messaging as those who were developing the program. So it was just a disconnect.

Leah Palmer (00:33:21)

Now, to the students that were looking for this to be their next leg, were devastated. Because they had done, above and beyond, excellent work and training. What we had to do though, and what it was, was an aha, that we needed to have the same conversations that we were having with our leadership with our HR. We needed HR to have the courtesy to have, “What is it that you’re doing different?” What is it that isn’t in our traditional job descriptions, because this is new, and not just an off the shelf job description that had been in play? So the growth from that was that the interviews were modified, and the students were then put through the system again. And, success. Because they all recognized where their strengths and what the possibilities were, and the demand that, a lot of those skills were going to also be taken care of within the fab.

Leah Palmer (00:34:24)

So I think that communication is huge, that the segments of the operations that we work with need to be collaborative and informed. And that was really a great lesson learned by everybody, that helped us pivot.

Dee Wallace (00:34:45)

Thank you for sharing that story. I really appreciate how much you appreciate that it’s the lessons that we have to learn along the way and pivot, without blame, in order to achieve the goals. Now, Tiffany, I think I saw your HR hat because you have the background in HR, nodding along the way with that, right?

Tiffany Mangum (00:35:13)

Definitely. Definitely. Sorry about that. Go ahead. I’m sorry.

Dee Wallace (00:35:18)

No, no. I saw you nodding. How did Fresno Housing go about affecting the change that you wanted to see? And did you run into those kinds of disconnects?

Tiffany Mangum (00:35:32)

We did. What it was, is we became more intentional and very direct when it came to holding leaders accountable at every level, and across departments. I think our ability, across our organization, it was a little fragmented. We had different values, different understandings of who we were as an organization. While it was one organization, we had very different ideas for how we engaged our staff, how we engaged our residents, how we worked with community or not. We had some who did not believe in that, as well. And so, we were challenged a little bit on every side, but it was about engaging the leaders across the agency and at every leadership level within the organization. That’s from our supervisors, to managers, to senior leaders, executive leaders, everywhere. Including our board.

Tiffany Mangum (00:36:35)

And I think I want to actually say that, that it is important to bring your board along. As you evolve your organization, even if it is internally with your staff, and we all know how the board structure works. The board doesn’t supervise the rest of the staff, they supervise the ED, or the CEO. But it’s important that as you are evolving as an organization, especially with leadership, it’s important to bring your board along. Sharing the challenges, sharing the intentions, the goals. Sharing the wins, and the outcomes ultimately, because truthfully, that board is going to need to adjust as well. And I have experience and I function at all of those levels, because I have staff at every level, and I have a board that I report to. And those things are important to communicate to them as well.

Tiffany Mangum (00:37:28)

But truthfully, Dee, we took a look, a hard look at our data, which was very telling. Again, our leadership did not reflect the community and the families that we serve. So the question was like, “Why should they trust us? Why should we be a valued partner? We don’t come from where they come from. We don’t operate as they do. We don’t have the same experience.” So again, we rewrote those job descriptions to… And again, we didn’t toss the components that were still important. We just added value statements that elevated experience, and growth, and skills, and development as a companion to those criteria, or an alternative to those criteria.

Tiffany Mangum (00:38:16)

Let me tell you, I firmly believe that, and even in this organization. You keep doing the same things, you’re going to keep getting the same results, and we simply did not like what we saw. So do something about it, and take that courageous step in doing something about it. You don’t have to know or have the perfect plan, know where to start. But do start somewhere.

Dee Wallace (00:38:41)

Continuing on that point of bravery, I’m curious about your observations, Leah and Tiffany, about working across the ecosystem in the skills-focused arena.

Dee Wallace (00:38:58)

Tiffany, people often, and you brought up, often ask about the balance between degrees and skill requirements in organizations. And I’m particularly thinking about in the nonprofit sector, where one of the paths that has been assumed for a lot of people, is degrees and advanced degrees. If I get my degree, that’s going to remove some discrimination from me, and that’s going to be my guaranteed path to equity. How are you balancing that conversation?

Dee Wallace (00:39:39)

And one of the questions that came in in the registration was, “What’s a tip to convince decision-makers to continue skills-based qualifications?” What would you say to those folks?

Tiffany Mangum (00:39:52)

Oh, well, I’d say a few different things.

Tiffany Mangum (00:39:56)

As far as leaders and decision makers, CEOs, CFOs, COOs, you’ve got to keep the focus on how skills-based recruiting, and hiring, and talent development, is really not so much about the right thing. It’s the smart thing. And if you keep it focused on the business operations, and the outcomes that you aspire to have, and the culture you aspire to have. And how you position yourself and your industry, and in your community, they’re going to follow along on that particular spectrum.

Tiffany Mangum (00:40:37)

But also make the case. Traditional credentials and degrees. I mean, I have a couple, so let me back up there. I do have a couple myself. They yield a modest assumption that I’m able to do the job, but there’s no guarantee. If I’m able to elevate certain competencies, certain skillsets, or deliverables, or leadership outcomes that I’ve already had, I’m shifting from assuming my ability to do the work to verifying. There’s a confirmation that I’m able to produce the results.

Tiffany Mangum (00:41:15)

And I’m going to go back to data, as well. There’s just proof in this strategy around skills-based talent development and recruitment. There’s data that shows that expanding to skills, and not just credentialed candidates, can fill positions faster. Meaning you’ll reduce the stress on your team, your efficiency will be pretty stable. And then also, there’s data that shows that skills-based workers are five times more likely to be very high performers. So there’s some value in it, and you can make the case in the value, the value proposition there.

Tiffany Mangum (00:41:58)

You want to include also community, and ensure they’re a part of your organization in some facet. Ideally, your workforce. They are contributing to the mission, they are helping the bottom line and contributing to that, and your organization hopefully can ideally reflect the community around you.

Tiffany Mangum (00:42:19)

But also, another tip I would say is, propose a pilot. Pick a department, pick a set of positions. Maybe you start with some project coordinators, or project managers. Or start with a set of positions, and recruit and build from within. Internally, one of the other things that we did was we started a management academy, for existing staff and supervisors. Anticipate, and look forward to their leadership growth and development, and advancement within your culture.

Tiffany Mangum (00:42:57)

Another one is, look at those job descriptions and really look at what is absolutely necessary for day-to-day tasks and your success. And show the leadership that sometimes the requirement for certain credentials could exclude candidates who have extensive experience, and success, and you’ve just eliminated them from joining your organization.

Tiffany Mangum (00:43:24)

So I think those are a couple of things I would think about, but that supervisor or management academy is a good one, has yielded great results for us.

Dee Wallace (00:43:32)

That sounds very powerful. That sounds very powerful.

Dee Wallace (00:43:36)

Now Leah, in terms of your ecosystem, particularly around advancing women in these fields, what are you seeing as a next horizon for leaders like yourself in this work?

Leah Palmer (00:43:56)

I think that, as I mentioned earlier, we had Fresh Start, which was a women’s organization, and we’ve made access, I think, very doable. I like that term. Because of the options that they have to actually be educated, and not be sacrificing family, and their part-time job.

Leah Palmer (00:44:26)

But the truth is, one of the biggest steps that is an absolute, is that industry partners, whatever their flavor is. In semiconductor, or like I said, electric vehicles, or data centers, or any of those pieces. That we have to have this kind of collaborative where, as part of the ecosystem, that they’re building curriculum together. That the people who have been teaching for 40 years and haven’t changed their curriculum, they’ve done that in isolation. What we have, though, is we have leaders in these technologies, with new technologies that now need to be addressed as part of their learning curve, now becomes something that is a collaborative effort and not a handoff.

Leah Palmer (00:45:23)

So if industry is just waiting for us to bake and cook, and make sure everything’s right, and then hand them in and say, “Go and prosper,” it doesn’t work that way. Smaller fabs need people with higher level skills. Large fabs can have hundreds on the entry level playing field. But if we can build the curriculum together at the same table, and recognize the same outcomes, then our messaging is better, our outputs are better, and our retention is better. Because they’re now ready to go do what they need to do.

Leah Palmer (00:46:06)

This, for some, reason seems to be difficult. When you have the wave of demand coming, we have 24,000 plus openings in Maricopa. 24,000 job openings for some of these same jobs. Why are they open? Because they have to be interviewed, and TSMC on one side of the landscape, all the way to NXP and others on the east side. So students are having to decide, “Am I going to drive two hours to go to this one, or am I going to drive an hour less to go to that one?” These are the kinds of things that we have to be navigators for them. We have to be better at not just handing off, but making sure that they know who those point guards are, what that curriculum was developed specifically for, and how we can make it work for the masses.

Leah Palmer (00:47:05)

And then lastly, we’ve got to make sure that we have an advisory board that is doing checks and balance to continue with the new technologies and the needs that students, and they’re going to have to pivot. That was a lot, that I just said there. But the truth is, we’re not where we were 10 years ago. We’re in a new norm now, and everyone needs to accept what that means, and how we can do it with each other.

Dee Wallace (00:47:36)

Speaking of the new norm, we did have questions come in in registration about, what’s your perspective on the role of AI in opening up opportunities in sectors like that?

Leah Palmer (00:47:49)

I think AI, and I’ll use a “I,” because I can’t speak for the masses. But I think AI has a real place in expediting, informing, and being almost a collaborator with the rest of us, to look at. We have individuals coming to Maricopa that are from Mexico, Israel, Taiwan, Korea, the Netherlands. All trying to find the same solutions. So we’re taking a lens that is global, and not necessarily just in our backyard. And some of the lessons learned, and things that we’ve learned how to share, we’ve got Ireland coming just this next week. They’re looking for those nuances, they’re looking for those specialty pieces, they’re looking for what’s going to be happening tomorrow. And sharing.

Leah Palmer (00:48:56)

And so, I think the international sharing, the regional sharing, and I think the building so that the individuals can actually have access, is where we’re going now with Maricopa.

Dee Wallace (00:49:13)

Thank you. And as we get to start to close out our time, and we’ll see if we have time for a couple of questions from the Q&A.

Dee Wallace (00:49:25)

Leah, I would love to turn this to your perspective as a leader yourself, personally, in this work as you have been innovating in this field for women, and championing what can make a difference for opening up opportunity. Where have you called upon yourself as a leader to champion this work? What are your skills that have served you well, in doing this work?

Leah Palmer (00:49:54)

I love that question. I call it the shoe test. I always have these little terms, bear with me. But if I were to wear someone else’s shoes, and I can tell you, there’s a lot of people out there with high hopes, but with little opportunity. And so, what is the shoe test? Make it doable. Make what we’re trying to develop doable. Make it stackable. Let’s make sure there’s access, and they know what door to go through, and that they’re not trying to find it on their own.

Leah Palmer (00:50:32)

Let’s have validating certifications that say, “Yes, I did. I accomplished this, and here’s my proof.”

Leah Palmer (00:50:39)

And resourcing, we’ve got to find ways to help resource, so that students can come through the door, and be part of it. You can’t run a class at noon and have a full classroom. You’ve got to figure out how do you resource this, that makes sense to the people who are going to come in? We have had a huge surge of new, like I said, first generation college goers. Why are they coming? Because we did it differently. We put the shoe test on. What is it that they need to be able to participate? And I think everybody needs to do that test, when they’re going to be a leader.

Dee Wallace (00:51:25)

I really appreciate your perspective in that way. And you’re reflecting something that I see so often in leaders across our communities, where the mission is so central to what they’re about, that they don’t even acknowledge their own leadership skills, and their own leadership practices and perspectives. Or brag about themselves, in terms of what they have brought to the table to accomplish.

Dee Wallace (00:51:56)

Am I hearing you, in your comments in saying that one of the leadership skills that have really served you well, is that you really value seeing the perspective of others.

Leah Palmer (00:52:11)

Yep.

Dee Wallace (00:52:12)

And not everybody has that. So thank you, thank you for sharing. Thank you for sharing that leadership practice.

Dee Wallace (00:52:18)

Tiffany, closing with you, what have you called upon in yourself as a leader to champion this kind of positive change?

Tiffany Mangum (00:52:29)

Oh, my word. The value of my own experience, lived experience, that I can bring to this work.

Tiffany Mangum (00:52:38)

And then, I believe that no matter where you come from, there’s value in what has led you up to this point, and what is the very unique formula that makes you, you. That brings us to this point. But I also have an unwavering commitment to see people thrive, and to see them change, and see them evolve into being who they desire to be. And that’s those who are, I work alongside, that is those who might report to me. Those are also those that I serve.

Tiffany Mangum (00:53:25)

And it’s very intentional that, in every aspect, I consider myself maybe not the smartest person in the room, maybe not the most experienced person in the room, but I do value what I do have, and what I bring. But I also value that in others, and believe that we can collaborate and work together to meet the mission. And our mission is centered around people, and seeing them thrive, and meet their goals and aspirations. And so everything about me is centered around people, and making sure that myself and others are able to contribute what we do have and what we do bring, to further our work and our impact and community.

Dee Wallace (00:54:13)

Thank you for sharing that. Let’s see, we’ve got time for one or two questions. And I see one that’s come up for you, Leah. About, “When connecting with employers, do you have a recommendation on where to start, or who to start with? Is it most impactful starting with HR, with hiring managers, with line staff?”

Leah Palmer (00:54:39)

I tend to look at the job roles, the multiple job roles that are there. And asking, “How can we train, how can we help these individuals be groomed, so that they can fit that opportunity?” It’s also an ask from industry to say, “Can you make your opportunities more viable for the landscape that we’re in?”

Leah Palmer (00:55:13)

For Arizona, as I mentioned, with over 24,000 jobs open on the books, we’ve got to get our industry to be part of the solution. And they’re doing that. I have a meeting in about three weeks, where a combination of TSMC and Amkor and Intel and NXP, and all of these other companies large and small, are coming to see, “What can you help us with?” And when somebody reaches those points, we can say, “Here’s what we can contribute.” And part of that contribution is making sure we’re in alignment, but also, making sure that they’re being part of the solution. And part of that solution is that, “We’re going to take you the second leg, where we’re going to train you while you’re earning and learning. We’re going to continue to train you.”

Leah Palmer (00:56:16)

That’s like gold, to an individual who wants to grow in an ecosystem like that. So that’s our goal, and everybody’s at the table.

Dee Wallace (00:56:30)

Thank you. Thank you for that. And one more question that had come in as well is, and I think Tiffany, you have a unique perspective coming from the nonprofit sector and community services sector, which is often a challenge in this sector.

Dee Wallace (00:56:49)

“What role do you see, and are you able to offer, family forward benefits as an opportunity to retain and recruit talent?” Family forward benefits like childcare, or paid family leave, and those kinds of things.

Tiffany Mangum (00:57:10)

Yeah, that’s all part of our benefits package. But, matter of fact, that’s the law here in California. But we are very, again, people centered. And we know that people have lives, people have families. I’ll speak for myself.

Tiffany Mangum (00:57:28)

We are able, and the way our organization is structured and the way we function, is family is of the… We serve families. They’re our number one customer. So it’s important for us to be able to understand the culture of family, and the understanding that families need us. And so we’re flexible in that regard. And I think a lot of that also depends on the leadership, on the specific leader that you are particularly working with. But I will say that across our agency, our intention and our goal is to make sure that we support not just the families that live in our housing, but also the families that we carry with us every single day.

Dee Wallace (00:58:19)

Thank you. And Tiffany, one more question for you. There’s some curiosity about your management academy, within your organization. Could you say a little bit more about that, about the topics covered, and how it works?

Tiffany Mangum (00:58:31)

Oh, yeah. Our Management Academy is about a six to eight week program, of course for non-managers, folks who are aspiring to be leaders. And we have various different leadership topics about how to supervise people, conflict management and conflict resolution. Managing resources, building talent and leadership, and what that looks like. So different management topics and leadership topics, and we have them in cohorts. We have about three throughout the year, because it is a demand on our time and resources and expertise, all of that. And we bring in guest speakers as well, but they do get a certificate at the end. People have to feel like they’ve accomplished something and they’re celebrated, so we do have a little certificate at the end, and a little reception. Our CEO, the CEO of Fresno Housing comes in and congratulates them. But people need to feel valued, and like your organization is a place that they can grow.

Leah Palmer (00:59:32)

Yep. Yeah.

Dee Wallace (00:59:33)

Thank you. Thank you for sharing that. And with that, we’ll go ahead and close out.

Dee Wallace (00:59:37)

Thank you both, Leah Palmer and Tiffany Mangum, for joining us today and so generously sharing your time, and experience and insights. And thank you all who’ve attended today for your participation and your continued commitment, no matter what, to increasing economic opportunity. And thank you to our wonderful comms Team of Tony, Nora, and Frances, for production of today’s event.

Dee Wallace (01:00:05)

We hope we’ll see you again soon. We have a couple of upcoming events that are probably of interest. On April 21st, we have Coming of Age, Good Jobs for Teens, so please join us for that. And also coming up on May 7th, Investing in Job Quality in the South. So we look forward to seeing you again soon, and thank you all.